Tao of the Windows Installer, Part 1

re: Tao of the Windows Installer, Part 1

i_mike++ — Tue, 02 May 2006 16:47:05 GMT

I think allot of people need to be beat over the head with rule#1 and rule#5.

Despite the fact that MSI has been out since Win2k and that Microsoft has been making a big (justifiable) stink about perils of poor app installation, I encounter very few developers/Architects who see the install process as little more than a glorified xcopy;
or who even know what MSI stands for.

re: Tao of the Windows Installer, Part 1

Michael — Tue, 02 May 2006 17:06:34 GMT

"It is possible to create a new package completely with ORCA, but this would be very tedious and error prone; equivalent to writing the Microsoft.com website in Notepad"

well and what is the best practice to create a new package? Isn't ORCA the only tool the SDK provides for this?

re: Tao of the Windows Installer, Part 1

Colin Bowern — Tue, 02 May 2006 18:43:52 GMT

I've loved the concept of the Windows Installer technology since the day I saw it. From my past years at MS though I think there needs to be some time spent spreading the news of how cool it is internally to the product groups. The Visual Studio folks should really get around to leveraging the stuff that shipped in WI3.x for the Setup Projects!

re: Tao of the Windows Installer, Part 1

jonks — Tue, 02 May 2006 19:39:06 GMT

Please reorder - Number 5 should be number 1!

Developers who are not familiar/interested in installer really need to understand the _HUGE_ impact a install experience can have on the perception of their product.

re: OFF TOPIC BUT IMPORTANT

Alexandra — Tue, 02 May 2006 23:32:13 GMT

Hi,

I am having Installer Custom Actions issues on VISTA, might be .NET related.
Unofortunately I cant seem to find any relevant info on the web re Vista and MSI Installers, besides the obvious.

Could you please give me some contact/link ?

I am an MSDN subscriber and a part of Microsoft Beta testers, but right now I would just like to approach someone through blog or online support request...

Thank you!!!

Alexandra.

re: Tao of the Windows Installer, Part 1

robmen — Tue, 02 May 2006 23:54:08 GMT

Michael, the WiX toolset (http://wix.sourceforge.net) is an alternative to using Orca. You have the ability to stay very close to the Windows Installer technology without having to worry about every itty-bitty detail (like keeping foreign keys cased correctly). It is also free like the rest of the Platform SDK.

re: Tao of the Windows Installer, Part 1

Rik — Wed, 03 May 2006 11:39:04 GMT

"read the white papers, books, etc mentioned in the Resources section"

Where's that?

re: Tao of the Windows Installer, Part 1

Michael — Wed, 03 May 2006 15:53:42 GMT

thanks, Rob. I know about the WiX toolset (and that some internal Microsoft projects are using it - though i don't know how big they are). Especially the "Clickthrough" subproject seems promising (but don't have the time to test how stable it already is).
I were just wondering if the VS2005 MSI Support is really the only easy-to-use tool to created msi packages from Microsoft.

I like the integrated with the build approach from WiX (it should be on the list as a MSI best practice :-) ), because VS2005 MSI seems not to scale for projects with about more than 5-10 people.
WiX certainly would.

re: Tao of the Windows Installer, Part 1

SusanG — Wed, 03 May 2006 17:57:35 GMT

I'm a long-time install developer who grew up on InstallShield's InstallScript. Switching to WI was painful. There was no way I could have made the switch without using a tool like InstallShield to create the package. In many ways WI provides a lot of standardization and consistency that I value. In other ways, I'm frustrated by the fact that I seem to be creating dozens of custom actions for most of my installs and that some seemingly simple things aren't built into WI that ought to be.
I'm looking very much forward to the rest of your doc. Thank you!

re: Tao of the Windows Installer, Part 1

Windows Installer Team — Wed, 03 May 2006 21:28:59 GMT

"what is the best practice to create a new package"
Maybe I was being a bit unfair to ORCA with Rule 6. You definitely can use it to create perfectly acceptable packages. In fact, if you've never used it for this, then I recommend you use ORCA to work through the SDK examples. Once you've done this, think about the amount of typing involved to create those tiny packages that essentially deploy a handful of text files and shortcuts, then consider this scaled up to something like the Office MSI.

As Rob says, WiX is an excellent alternative (and is recommended in a later rule), but those less developer-minded might be better off using one of the excellent GUI-based tools available from 3-rd party vendors – obviously, if you use one of these, you still need to keep Rule 1 in mind.

”Please reorder - Number 5 should be number 1”
Actually, Rule 1 is the only one that is in order! As it mentions, I consider it to be vital advice, hence I placed it at the number one spot. However, the rest of the rules are not ordered according to importance.

Where is the Resources section?
The resources section will appear at the end of the white paper when released. I don’t plan on posting it here, but you can find some recommendations here and here.

”I cant seem to find any relevant info on the web re Vista and MSI Installers, besides the obvious”
Not sure if this is “the obvious”, but you can download the Windows SDK for Vista, which contains a section on the Installer and may answer your questions. The documentation can also be found in on MSDN On-line.

”some seemingly simple things aren't built into WI that ought to be”
Can you elaborate on this? Obviously, some things are specific to a particular package, so need some custom code written, but if you feel the Installer lacks a widely-applicable feature, then you can submit a “wish” request via the MsiWish alias.

[Author: Richard Macdonald]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

re: Tao of the Windows Installer, Part 1

Andy C — Thu, 04 May 2006 16:41:17 GMT

I don't think I've encountered many installers that can't manage an "All Users" install (whether the application uses the right data folders is another matter), however packages that actually work in all three deployment scenarios (user/computer assigned & published) is another matter.

re: Tao of the Windows Installer, Part 1

Jennifer — Fri, 05 May 2006 01:44:56 GMT

I think you should rename the rules to be "Guidelines until we (Microsoft) decide to change our minds again".

Rule 4

Zweitze — Sat, 06 May 2006 13:54:28 GMT

I disagree with rule 4 (always use the highest version):
1. Older versions support a wider range of platforms, eg. Windows Me and Windows NT.
2. Upgrading system software on a target system may require a reboot, which could be costly for certain customers.
3. Upgrading system software on a target system may break down other applications that were authored poorly.

An example of #3 is MDAC: I once had an app that required MDAC 2.6 or higher. The manager decided to install 2.8. So we did, and dozens of customers complained that their ERP software (present on the same systems) became unreliable after installing our software.

The mentioned 'pro' reasons are :
* new features: Only use this reason if you intend to use these features.
* bug fixes/security: This reason is only valid when these fixes have an impact on your software.
* Support: Like older versions, support for WI 3.1 will end sooner or later, probably long before you withdraw your product from the market.

In my opinion, the only true reason for using the latest version is a reduction your testing efforts - you have less versions to test. For everything else, use the lowest version that suits the needs of your product and your customers.

Zweitze.

re: Tao of the Windows Installer, Part 1

Christopher Painter — Mon, 08 May 2006 05:12:50 GMT

I've given up on msiwish myself. Seriouly, Windows Installer came out with Windows 2000 and 7 years later LockPermissions STILL can't properly handle ACL's. That's just one example of a time that custom actions need to be written instead of just authoring table data.

re: Tao of the Windows Installer, Part 1

Windows Installer Team — Mon, 08 May 2006 18:35:59 GMT

"I disagree with rule 4 "
You are correct that using older Installer versions does provide a wider range of platforms, but Windows NT 4.0 has left its Extended Support phase and Windows ME is in this phase only until July this year. So, as the rule states, by sticking to an older version you are likely to have problems getting help if something goes wrong - this could be particularly bad if the issue is a security hole, which won't be patched on an unsupported platform.

As the number of NT/ME clients decreases with migration to XP or Vista, then targetting older versions also becomes an uneccessary burden for package developers. Why test and support a platform only used by a tiny fraction of the user base?

"I've given up on msiwish myself"
Unfortunately, not every request can be implemented for a variety of reasons. For example, a change that would help you may have a negative impact on other users and the developers need to take everyone into account when making changes.

If you feel something is a bug, then definately raise it via the usual support channels. You can raise Design Change Requests (DCR) this way as well, but as my comment above suggests the bar for accepting these is higher.

In any case don't give up on providing feedback - I guess that you've had a poor experience in the past, but I assure you that Microsoft takes customer feedback very seriously and the only way for you to get the improvements you want is to keep giving feedback. If we don't know something is causing customer's problems we are likely to assume it is ok and concentrate efforts elsewhere.

[Author: Richard Macdonald]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

re: Tao of the Windows Installer, Part 1

Zweitze — Mon, 08 May 2006 23:17:43 GMT

"Why test and support a platform only used by a tiny fraction of the user base?"

I assume this is not a rhetorical question and you really want to know why.

First, the word "tiny" is subjective. On a product I worked on, 30% of the users were on Windows 98 (+SE)...in the end of 2004.
But more important, some customers are large organizations or government organizations, having certain Service Agreements. They all force the supplier to support the product for 3..5 years after deployment. Such organizations are usually understaffed (or have staff of poor quality) forcing them to take conservative positions on upgrading their systems.

It is my opinion that the assumption "all customers are using bleeding edge technology" is short-sighted. Instead I suggest a customer-oriented rule to determine the right version.

re: Tao of the Windows Installer, Part 1

Windows Installer Team — Tue, 09 May 2006 00:20:15 GMT

"the assumption 'all customers are using bleeding edge technology' is short-sighted"
You're right, the real world is never as clear-cut as you'd like and many companies are stuck with very old and outdated technology, for whatever reason. However, I still feel that I can't recommend using old and unsupported platforms and tools as a "best practice".

[Author: Richard Macdonald]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

re: Tao of the Windows Installer, Part 1

Felix — Wed, 10 May 2006 22:26:47 GMT

While I agree entirely with your Rule #1, the biggest problem for a developer trying to learn the Windows Installer is "Where do I begin?"

Believe me, I want to understand the installer as much as possible (as I'm sure most developers would), but by just looking at your post for resources you reference a Knowledge Base article and a link on MSDN. The problem with these 2 links? They are also pages that contain more references to other resources, newsgroups, blogs, etc.

The most detailed part of the installer we have is the SDK documentation. But as you pointned out, "The SDK is designed as a reference and so you shouldn’t try to read it from start to finish."

Why can't there just be one resource that we CAN read from start to finish?

The books & white papers in the Microsoft Patterns & Practices are great. You can read them from start to finish and have a better understanding about the topic being covered. A good example of an excellent document is the Team Development with Visual Studio .NET and Visual SourceSafe.

If there were that one book or resource we could go to I'm sure most developers would try to follow your other rules.

re: Tao of the Windows Installer, Part 1

Windows Installer Team — Thu, 11 May 2006 12:26:25 GMT

"Where do I begin?"
You make an excellent point. Installer material is widely dispersed (hence my trouble compiling a best practices list), but one book that may be worth a look for complete beginners is:

The Definitive Guide to Windows Installer

This is slightly out of date now, but should be fine for a beginner to get to grips with the key Installer concepts before switching to the SDK.

[Author: Richard Macdonald]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

re: Tao of the Windows Installer, Part 1

Felix — Fri, 12 May 2006 09:01:09 GMT

I know my last post sounded like a rant, but I also wanted to thank you for starting this article. Your post was one of those "finally, I found it" type of blogs.

Maybe when this is complete it will be the resource to reference? ;-) Good luck with the rest!

Run ICE Validation and Fix Errors

Heath Stewart's Blog — Thu, 08 Jun 2006 19:38:43 GMT

It's important that you run ICE validation on your MSIs and MSMs, and that you fix any and all ICE errors, treating warnings subjectively.

Windows Installer best practices

Aaron Stebner's WebLog — Sun, 09 Jul 2006 03:29:27 GMT

I recently noticed a series of in-depth articles that have been posted on the Windows Installer team...

Inside the MSI

Van Kichline's WebLog — Mon, 11 Sep 2006 18:47:49 GMT

If you're following this article, you must be interested in modifying how an MSI produced by a Visual...

Windows Installer Team Blog : Tao of the Windows Installer, Part 5

Windows Installer Team Blog : Tao of the Windows Installer, Part 5 — Tue, 19 Sep 2006 00:50:44 GMT

PingBack from http://blogs.msdn.com/windows_installer_team/archive/2006/07/28/681358.aspx

Windows Installer Team Blog : Tao of the Windows Installer, Part 4

Windows Installer Team Blog : Tao of the Windows Installer, Part 4 — Tue, 19 Sep 2006 00:53:30 GMT

PingBack from http://blogs.msdn.com/windows_installer_team/archive/2006/06/27/648447.aspx