Xbox Engineering : Multiparty Chat

Multiparty Chat

Since Xbox 360's launch, I've been trolling various message boards for feedback about my biggest feature: voice chat. This post made the previous year of my life completely worth every minute. There's something to be said about the power of Xbox Live to bring people together, regardless of what you think of the service.

That said, the most consistent piece of feedback is "Why can't I talk with multiple people in QuickChat?" The simple answer is that it was a user experience choice. The longer answer follows, but know that there isn't much in the lower level software that would stop us from letting users do this. However, let's think about it some more...

Xbox Live requires users to have broadband connections that are at least 64kbps up & down. On the other side of the coin, Xbox Live requires games to work within 64kbps. Voice chat in a game uses some of that bandwidth. How much depends on the number of users, mostly. All Xbox Live games have voice chat in some way, so there is at least one user worth of "chat bandwidth."

The Xbox 360 guide is not omniscient. It has a lot of info, but it can't know how many people are chatting inside a particular game. However, it knows that there's at least one user worth of bandwidth around being used for chat because we wrote that rule. When you use QuickChat, the Xbox 360 Guide mutes voice going to the game. That means the game no longer has any voice chat to transmit, and hence stops using the voice chat bandwidth. That frees up the bandwidth for QuickChat to use.

Imagine QuickChat did let you speak with multiple people at a time. This means you'd need to send data to multiple people, thereby multiplying the amount of bandwidth you need. This may make QuickChat go over the 64kbps total that is available. If you have a much faster pipe, this would not be a problem. However, measuring available bandwidth is a non-trivial problem that has had many academic papers written about it.

Going past the available bandwidth would make either your game or chat experience horrible - perhaps even both. Hence, QuickChat doesn't go over the minimum requirements to make sure all our users have a consistent experience on Xbox Live.

Published Wednesday, February 08, 2006 9:30 PM by shaheeng

Comments

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 09, 2006 3:57 AM by Tuur

Only 64Kb? I always thought there was a minimum of 128Kb up?

Anyways, thanks for the post. And yes, the dashboard is the best thing ever.

Now where is my clan support and messenger integration? ;)

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 09, 2006 4:36 AM by Bagpuss

Intersting, I expected it to be by design, even if the design in this respect is a bit flawed. Why though wasn't a multiway chat added as say as part of the main dashboard or even a Xbox Live Marketplace download (even though its not really a game).

I've been toying with my mates all getting Gauntlet, at least then we can have a 4 way multi chat.

I assume that the vid cam will come with a multi way chat facility as part of its software. If it does then it will sell well, even though to disgruntled customers that multi way chat wasn't avaliable as standard.

I've found, along with alot of my friends that loosing the multi way chat from dashboard is the biggest weakness of the 360. Its a real nad kicker that such a small feature that was used so much is missing.

You don't realise how useful it was until its gone, it was so quick and convenient for organising a night on line (and you were gauranteed that people had it by default). Its like being stuck with a broken down car in the country side and a flat battery on your mobile phone.

# World of Quandoz » Warum Quickchat nur ein Einzelgespr?ch ist?

Thursday, February 09, 2006 5:48 AM by World of Quandoz » Warum Quickchat nur ein Einzelgespr?ch ist?

PingBack from http://www.quandoz.com/home/?p=49

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 09, 2006 7:59 AM by Zoltak

I agree that it is a small dissapointment that multi-user chat was not included as a Dashboard only feature similar to the original Xbox's multi-user chat.

Many of my friends and I would use it for a ton of different things including setting up games over Xbox Live as well as chat during non-Xbox games or just to save on the phone charges.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 09, 2006 12:11 PM by jz28

I think a hard limit of 4 users should be used for chat... I mean, the data is switched from game chat to personal chat, so I dont really see how it impacts the bandwidth.

I think MANY users want this feature.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 09, 2006 12:19 PM by Bill

Personally, I can understand why quick chat should stay the way it is (bandwidth limitations), but there should still be a multichat option in the dash. Multichat could terminate for a given user when he or she boots a game.

Regards,
Bill

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 09, 2006 12:19 PM by Calico210

When a game has 16 players or even 32 players in it, doesn't the voice chat then also have to adhere to the same limitations? Thus if a few friends trying to coordinate the evening's gaming session should also be able to fit in the same 64kbps limit, right? when the game chat is muted is the data being transfered or can that bandwidth be freed up since it is not the active chat? Shouldn't only the active chat be using up the 64kbps?

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 09, 2006 12:23 PM by Lewis

But it is the user's choice to invite multiple people into a room. Your logic is flawed.

It's like having a video for download, but only having the low quality version in-case someone with a slow connection decides to download the high quality version.

Also, I don't see how it's different from having multiple people chat in a game? Personally, I agree with Pagpuss and see this as yet another way for Microsoft to force you to spend more money on functionality that should be already be there.

Don't get me wrong, I love Xbox live, a lot of it's great features and the ability to chat to people, but I've just spent £300 on a console, £22 on a memory card (Yes I could only get the Core), £35 on a wireless controller, £40 on Xbox Live and another £22 on a headset only to find I have to pay even more for basic functionality such as changing my gamer picture, talking to multiple people, or changing my gamertag.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 09, 2006 12:31 PM by ErneX

I would like to "sign" for a multichat petition, Bill has a great suggestion a few comments above mines, make it mute or exit when you enter a game but still give us the choice of having multiple parties chat when we are in the dashboard.

You can even have a 4 people chat if these players are not playing on Live, sometimes I talk while playing a single player session with another friend who's playing in another one. Even if you are on live and doing this, the game "chat" is no longer active and you only hear your friend.

I say yes for user choice.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 09, 2006 12:32 PM by Scrapple Joe

Simple solution to this:

Create 2 chat options in the dashboard :

1. Current 1 on 1 chat system for jumping into games..

2. Multiuser Chat system for dashboard only... for setting up games.... Just put a note in the chat info that all chat connections will drop one you exit out of room or join a game....

Microsoft better get this working or ps3's live will kill xbox live... cuz you know sony wont mess it up.... they will one up MS at every chance they get...

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 09, 2006 12:44 PM by m13b

Leave QuickChat as is, but give us back the Dashboard chatroom that we had the the original 'box. No bandwidth being used for anything else but chat = Problem solved.

Including communication with original Xbox users on the 360 is also needed. Voice and text messaging between platforms too.

Seeing that the 360 has backwards compatibility for games, I don't see how any of this was overlooked.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 09, 2006 12:48 PM by Stan

I'd also vote for a dashboard-only multi chat. It is very hard to organize games otherwise. For example, I have a regular group of friends from college that plays on Wednesdays and Thursdays at 8. With the old xbox we would just meet up in the dashboard, talk, wait until we saw who was showing up, then decide what to play based on who was online. Now we are stuck with a real mess of messages bouncing back and forth, or trying to agree beforehand on a game we can use simply as a chat room. Other than this one regression the new dashboard is great.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 09, 2006 1:02 PM by Wargasmic

That logic is flawed, trying to protect people from having a bad lag experience. There's plenty of other stuff peeps could do to diminish their bandwidth outside the xbox.

Multiparty chat should be enabled. Just put a warning on it if necessary.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 09, 2006 1:10 PM by Beer Monkey at Tehbias Dot Com

The deletion of this functionality has REALLY hurt the ability of many smaller communities to coordinate games. MS should at least release a free Live Arcade 'game' called 'ChatMania' and let us talk with up to sixteen players at once.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 09, 2006 1:28 PM by Manfeco

I think this is a sad situation. It's just line the cancellation of the Xbox 1 web cam. Most people on Xbox Live are going to have a connection far superior to 64Kb up and down. Even the cheapest of DSL service guarantees 128. It seems like the team is deciding the program for the lowest denominator, and telling the greatest majority that they will suffer for it. We don’t even have the dashboard chat like we did on the original Xbox. After playing games like the Final Fantasy Beta, I couldn't feel stronger about the necessity to have a larger chat channel. I know many agree that it would be nice if you could hang out in public games, but be in a private chat with your friends. This is a HUGE omission and definitely leaves a big window open for Sony's expected online service.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 09, 2006 1:38 PM by Gibby71

Group chat is so needed to help set games up. Please stop teasing me that its possible to do and just make it happin. A dashboard only chat would be great. Even better if you can chat with xbox people too.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 09, 2006 1:42 PM by ErneX

Good thing is that they have these weblogs and they are listening to the community.

I can say with confidence that at least in Spain (and Spain is the country with the worst broadband service in Europe, I'm not saying it's bad, just that it is the worst compared to the whole EU), the slower ADSL link you can get now it's 1024/384

Three companies are offering now 20mbit down/1mbit up right now at very reasonable prices ( 29€ monthly ), just two years ago we paid 45€ for 256kbps ADSL, so things are really getting better.

BeerMonkey has a nice idea there, release a free arcade game just to chat, maybe with silly avatars like the ones in Dead or Alive 4 :)

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 09, 2006 2:07 PM by Isurus

The logic of this post makes no sense to me. In a game, I can talk to as many people as there are in the game. Why can't I do this in private chat? All people want to be able to do is invite 4 or so people into a private chat so that we can all chat on the same channel at once. If you can do this in-game, you should be able to do it in private chat as well.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 09, 2006 2:28 PM by swoosh bnd

Why not just create it similar to what the first Xbox had? A lobby in the dashboard for chatting with friends. It doesn't do anything like you said were the problems of it. Please, do it.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 09, 2006 2:48 PM by Gibber

It would seem there are *many* options for not running into bandwidth problems with multiple chat channels - compression and scaling being the most obvious. I find it hard to beleive that the simplistic logic suggested is *really* the reason why multichat wasn't included... there are so many easy ways to program around that limitation.

As with everyone else here, I would like to heartily petition you guys to change your minds - 2 person chat is a rediculous limitation for todays gamer. If skype can do 4, so should a service that we pay good money for - Live.

"Get er done." - as they say.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 09, 2006 2:57 PM by Viridium

I've got to agree that this is a sorely needed feature. It makes it virtually impossible to try and set up a multiplayer game with some friends when you can only chat with one at a time. It just drove us to pick up the phone, or even use Skype - and then what's the point of Live chat!?

I'd like to suggest looking again at making multi user chat - even if just in the dashboard! - a reality.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 09, 2006 3:11 PM by Lee

The solution to the problem that you present is to tunnel the voice traffic through the central live servers rather than peer-to-peer which is what you are suggesting. This is how I presume that you had the "lobby" on the original xbox, whereby the Live server combines the <insert unlimited number here> amount of people in the current chat session.
What you've actually done with the 360 therefore is reduce the bandwidth you use by turning off the "lobby" (which you "host") and putting Quick Chat as a 1 to 1 relationship between each person.

I think you've really missed the boat here....

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 09, 2006 3:36 PM by jmel

How exactly would it affect the bandwidth if you have 8-16 people in game chat, and then you change channels and have 8-16 in private chat?

In the end, isnt it still 8-16 people chatting? that shouldnt do anything to bandwidth...

That is, unless you are still transmitting both channels at teh same time, but merely muting one.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 09, 2006 3:50 PM by Wargasmic

I remember watching a pre-release interview with one of the 360 developers where he described being able to use the private chat in large multiplayer games to divide a team into offensive and defensive chats for example, making your own squad based channels even if the game didn't support that.

There must have been a time constraint or some other real reason for scaling this back.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 09, 2006 4:01 PM by Double Fish

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# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 09, 2006 4:06 PM by Logan

We absolutely do need group voice chat in the dashboard. Thats a feature that even the original xbox had, so I was shocked to see it missing on the 360.

Its nice to assemble a group of friends or a clan and talk strategy before you jump into a game. Or, if not everyone owns a certain game, you can still all chat together.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 09, 2006 4:30 PM by InfernoXxX

I was wondeing how that worked in game chat like halo 2. 8 people could talk at the same time. also can you show me one person that has 64KB download on dsl. there is noo one. most companys start at 100kb or more. If it's possible in halo 2 it has to be in dashboard. even 4 person chat would be nice. make it more in dashboard and 4 in game...wait the game channel allows us to speak with as many people as in the game. I played marble blast with 7 people, no lag and well all talked. this logic must be flawed some how. It just dosn't make sense

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 09, 2006 7:27 PM by Charbal

This could be solved in a couple of ways:

1. As some have suggested, confine multiparty chat to the dashboard.

2. Per another suggestion, just show a warning when a third person is added to the chat channel that says something like "Chatting with multiple people uses more bandwidth and can potentially degrade the multiplayer experience of some Live-enabled games." Then let the players (having been suitably warned) choose to play their games with their multiparty chat if they want to.

3. Use servers. Then regardless of how many people you are chatting with, a console will only need to send out one copy of their voice to the server. That takes care of the issue of user upload capacity albeit at the cost of additional server bandwidth (up and down) being utilized. Still, the amount required is drop in the bucket compared to the amount necessary to enable marketplace game demo downloads.

If user download capacity is an issue (which I very much doubt), then the server could mix the audio streams for the chat and send a single stream back to the console with everything (except oneself and any muted players, of course). This does increase the server CPU resources required, however. To minimize the load, it might be possible to simply remove a player from the chat channel if they were muted by someone else in it (or disallow players from muting players in a chat channel/inviting muted players to a channel).

Heck, a combination of these techniques could be used... a user's multiparty chat could broadcast to an Xbox Live server when they were in a game and directly to the players otherwise. Slightly more complex but very bandwidth-efficient.

In short, all the issues raised seem to be solvable problems.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 09, 2006 7:29 PM by DansWrath

How is it done in PGR3? I've been on with 8 people all chatting and racing online without any problem. Is this using a central server acting as a VoIP conference bridge? Technically, there is no reason this can't be done, it just may take up resources on XBox Live's servers, and maybe Microsoft doesn't want to do that.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 09, 2006 8:49 PM by johnny Moreno

ok good enough but now lets talk about features you guys(the users) want implemented. Like the music player it needs a forward and rewind function. You need to let us do something while downlaoding content and for godsakes my xbox live page is blank no new news like "Game X is coming out!" or "mystrey gamerr on tonight" and a featred downlaods page its a lot of blank real estate and maybe you guys should put a web browser on it!

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 09, 2006 9:21 PM by Hector

If multichat affected a user's experience then they could exit the chat. Why ruin high bandwith user's expeirience just because some people might have problems if they used this optional feature. If it didn't work for them, then they just woudn't do it.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 09, 2006 9:47 PM by Lambda Ze Panda

It makes sense, but it would still be a nice feature. I'd love to be able to chat with even just two of my friends. I mean, you could issue a warning stating it could cause interweb slowdown, but most would probably ignore anyway...

I think T1 could handle multiple chat users :-)

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 09, 2006 9:53 PM by Blaze Lord

Yes, please, please Dash-only or DVD-only multiparty chat. And non-gaming activity during a Live download is an absolute must! A download queue would be awesome too.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 09, 2006 9:58 PM by Simon

Can't we have multi-user chat just on the Xbox 360 Dashboard (for now) like we had on the old Xbox? You aren't in a game whilst you're on that, which means the bandwidth requirement problem isn't the same.

Also surely it could be programmed to check what the upstream is, and if it's above a certain point (eg: your fat pipe user who has tons of bandwidth) it'll let you set up and connect to multi-user chat sessions.

It's one of the biggest things that I think is missing from the 360 and I'd really like to see it added (back) in.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 09, 2006 10:29 PM by Number 01

Why don't they allow you to pick your connection speed or better have it detect you speed and if you have enough extra bandwith you can do it. I will never buy into the "theres not enough bandwidth excuse" and I currently have 768 up and 8000 down and I plan on paying for the fastest service I can get, so I say LET US DO MULTIPARTY CHAT!!!!!

PS. THE WAY THE PRIVATE IN GAME CHATS SET UP NOW SUCKS and people can use it to talk to friends in the game on the other team and cheat.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 09, 2006 11:00 PM by FLYING SE7EN at TEHBIAS.COM

I agree that the multi-chat should be confined to the dashboard like on the original xbox. This omission has positively crippled my little online community. It's extremely difficult to get a group of people together and decide on a game. I echo all of the thoughts before me and I am begging MS to fix this with a future dashboard update. If I could make another suggestion, I think it would be cool if we could allow the user to select how we'd like 4x3 material displayed when playing BC xbox games. This way us widescreen owners can stretch 4x3 games if we choose to. My cable box has this function so I would assume the 360 could handle it with ease.

J.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Friday, February 10, 2006 12:14 AM by Alex Esber

to me this isn't even the main problem...why can't you add a prefrence to turn off auto play.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Friday, February 10, 2006 12:38 AM by asifspider

Is there any reason there isn't an option for multiplayer chat while playing single player, but ending the chat for anyone who tries to play an online game? Or checking the chat host's bandwidth and determine whether they can handle a larger chat?

At the least, offer the chat lobby from the old XBOX. This just screams of lazyness and trying to cash in on the upcoming webcam. I dig a lot of the stuff LIVE can do, and the QuickChat feature truly is handy, but the limitations on it make little sense.

Why should I have to load up something like Halo 2 or PDZ just to have a chat session with more than one friend? It's good to play together? Jump in? Not quite.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Friday, February 10, 2006 12:42 AM by Wiggy

It really boggles the mind how such an elementary feature can't be put in; the original box had the basic lobby so I don't see why that, at least, can't be replicated for the 360.

My friends and I enjoy chatting while we play single-player games and the like so I don't see how it would be such a burden to make a 4-player lobby. At least bring back the old lobby or program the software to check for bandwidth (it could tell a user that they couldn't support more than 2 people). You guys programming for the low-end users seems pretty ridiculous, as many people who have broadband would have speeds wel above 64k. It is unacceptable that the rest of us can't enjoy a basic feature that was included on the last system and that really should've been thought out for the private chat system for this generation. The logic of your response just doesn't hold water, as a 64k user can obivously play a game that requires bandwidth AND talking to 16 people... why can't there be a lobby for four people that exists outside of the game channel (no data transmitted for the others in the game)? Just doesn't make any sense.

You are already seeing many people demand this feature so I do hope that you and your team look into a resolution. I hope that this isn't what it seems (a money grab to get people to buy the camera for old functiionality). Please, I ask you to bring back the old lobby and at least attempt to add some increased functionality to the private chats so that we can play singlie-player experiences with that feature and have more than 2 people chatting.

Thanks.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Friday, February 10, 2006 1:42 AM by Major Fan

Even if we just got 4 player chat off the Dashboard it would help immensely. Thisis a MUST HAVE feature for people who organzie their play for the night with a group of friends.

We also would use the xbox 16 person rooms during E3 and major announcements.

Please put me down as another vote for putting it back in in some fashion.

Major Fan

# re: Multiparty Chat

Friday, February 10, 2006 1:46 AM by CraiZE

This is the most flawed excuse i seen.

Xbox Live, as Service has been constantly loosing in Quality.

Dead or Alive 4 for instance removed Voice Chat in it's Lobby, yet while fighting it is enabled. Now tell me with any logic why that was done. Because i rather want someone to not use my bandwidth during GAMEPLAY then in a lobby where i couldn't care less.....

We have Call of Duty 2 which comes completely without a Lobby System, i thought the 360 was so much into Customization, yet i get more host options in Ridge Racer Revolution over System Link on a Playstation 1; And i don't have to pay for that.

Anyhow, i think the Multiple people chat is missing on the 360. It Alienates a 3rd person or even more since they know they are being put on hold, they know you let them wait while talking to someone else. It isn't only stupid to restrain users with the bandwidth to do it (if they can), but as well it makes people feel bad. Where are our options? Where is our customization?

Bandwidth is not a reason, its a flawed excuse. We are paying you guys for "Standard" Features, we don't pay you to give us an excuse "why blah blah blah isnt there", You are PAID to solve the problem, to say "we did this and that".

You don't work on an open source project, so your money should be spent on working, instead of eating nachos and coming up with excuses.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Friday, February 10, 2006 2:03 AM by TheJtiggidy

I don't need to talk with multiple people as bad as I need to be able to play with a organized group of people easily.

I can chat in game with whoever I want but it is most difficult to get a group of friends on a server. The Invite/Join session capabilities are just not good enough.

Give me local media, more codecs and better group play and I will be 100% happy.

oh.. dude above. Dont forget that many households share ONE connection with many devices. Its best for everyone that microsoft makes rules like these. Your lag may be bad bacause someone else doesnt have high bandwidth or a bad conenction.. do you want him chatting with 5 people also?

# re: Multiparty Chat

Friday, February 10, 2006 4:24 AM by slider2nl

i think it will be a great option to have mutiple chats and talking with more then 4.

you got my vote.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Friday, February 10, 2006 4:31 AM by Bagpuss

One thing to remember is that the 300+K up and say 2 meg down, is max speed in most cases not consitent speed. This can drop quite often.

On top of this 64K is ISDN speed so I guess makes a decent base to work on.

Having a low imposed limit for a non host player forces tighter network programming and utilisation of bandwidth, hence, in theory more people in a single game.

That aside, either a dash board update to add a multi way chat to one of the blades or the idea of Xbox Live Arcade "ChatMania" is really an essential feature. I really would hope that either the camera video chat application alows multi chat or if not some other indie developer is thinking "Ah lets write a multi chat app" for live arcade.

I'd quite happily throw 400 points or so at a downloadable app, and I bet the majority of 360 live users would end up doing the same. A million or so 400 point purchases appearing all at once would be a nice income for some small indie team. Of course there would be the worry about the loss of camera sales, but that would apeal to people who don't want the video side or would just end up putting a picture from one of those top shelf mags infront to the camera to hide their face.

(I would guess no one has thought seriously about the implications of video chat and using other "objects" than their face on screen. If they did the video camera probably wouldn't come out).

If it wasn't so expensive to get up and running with 360 development, I'd get a team together and do it myself :-)

# re: Multiparty Chat

Friday, February 10, 2006 6:02 AM by soco

can't the voice be relegated to a lower priority than the game data, such that if there's a timestamp present on the datapackets and it exceeds a certain amount the game data will take the priority, thus only impacting the voice chat. if this continues for say 5-10 seconds, warn the user that the throughput isn't capable of handling his group chat, in the same way that we see someone left or joined a chat. this way the voice chat is throttled for those who can't handle it and the online experience should remain mostly intact.

alternatively, a more simplistic approach would be just to warn the user when he attempts to connect to multiple people, even if by only a small line of text saying that group chats could impact game play and introduce lag.

even if this only existed in the dashboard, it's still a feature i'd give away my first born to have -- especially in-game. i think it's important because i, like many people, are really using the whole social aspects of the 360, and this seems like such an important missing piece of that. it just seems a shame that we're all limited by the lowest common denominator, especially when games like PDZ allow users to go above and beyond the defaults when the user is sure the pipes can handle it.

as suggested above, the idea of an XBL arcade item that's just a group chat would be really cool, if it's decided that the LCD should rule. i'm sure it'd be even better if people could have 3d avatars which they could build from really cheap purchases on the marketplace and silly things people could do in their chatrooms like stream lower quality music to others in their chatrooms and design it themselves. not a feature for everyone, obviously, but among the youth, that'd be a big thing.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Friday, February 10, 2006 7:10 AM by zark

if voice chat is 64kbps then why
does it sound like a packet connect
simular to oneway tin cans on a string.

PTT sounds better than this.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Friday, February 10, 2006 8:19 AM by StyxBoatman

Coming from a networking background, this seriously does not make any sense to me.

Aren't you basically doing some iteration of VoIP? I know for a fact that the 360 does not limit it's bandwith use... just check the upper right of the screen when playing the FFXI Beta. I've uploaded constantly on the 300-600 range and downloaded around 1.5 range.

If you are looking at packets that can be as small 18Kb and sent to a virtual broadcast address that can be set on the originator of the chat with basic QoS management, you really are not looking at very little to no lag. Mostly if you limit Dashboard originated chats to 4 to 6 people.

Sorry... it really doesn't make any networking sense... Mostly since I can go on my PC and user third party apps (even Microsoft apps) to have a voice chat with my party while playing some games on-line at the same time.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Friday, February 10, 2006 10:46 AM by slider2nl

Even with skype i can talk with 4 people and downloading and play a game at the same time so why can't the 360 do the same. my xbox 360 is faster dan my pc.
It is just a minor update. The xbox team got the brains and the power to make it possible, and they did a great job with the new dashboard features but i still hope to see that we can chat with more then 4 people.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Friday, February 10, 2006 11:03 AM by Ultravires

i can see sony adding in this multichat feature with the ps3 as an overal package, so i hope ms some how releases this feature for free instead of charging for this feature in some kind of a feature update or hardware addon

# re: Multiparty Chat

Friday, February 10, 2006 11:25 AM by Bagpuss

Yep, Sony will almost certainly do it, probably with a press anouncement to co-incide with a big 360 title release to try and steal the thunder. Its their style, all hype with reduced content. It does supprise me that Sony didn't do Fable :-)

The problem is that if Sony get their live service mostly right first time that _will_ make a big impact on Xbox Live. The PS2 has enough of a following that a PS3 based service will sell well even if its half baked and shoddy, let alone good. If they bring out a killer service there may well be a distinct drop in Xbox Live players long term. Lets face it, all they need in Japan is a FF game that has on line and for the whole service to be say £5 month and thats pretty much Microsoft pushed out of Japan for 360 sales in the future.

Xbox Live _has_ to be top notch to complete for user base becuase the sheep mentality will result in people flocking to the PS3 just because their mates have one. Even if the Sony service is half baked at first. You can bet that it will also improve rapidly over time and that they will integrate in a Sony music service et al.

Muti chat rapidly became a core part of Xbox live, to not have it on the 360 is really a nad kicker..... and a hard kick at that.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Friday, February 10, 2006 1:59 PM by Spin

OK, maybe I'm confused. In game, you can have a 16 player match, 8vs8. 8 people could be talking at once on your team and other data to transmit actual gameplay stuff. All of this fits within 64kbps? I would think the game data alone would exceed 64kbps. Also if it doesn't, and you are substituting a voice chat of 8 (in game) for 1 through quickchat isn't there a bunch of bw left for 7 more people? there is probably more going on that isn't explained in the blog which would cause it to make sense but, it was interesting to read.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Friday, February 10, 2006 10:47 PM by Spilt_Milk

Once again the good people at MS are completely full of it. You can play World of Warcraft and have teamspeak running with 20+ people and have no lag but the super duper 360 using the exact same pipe cannot?

I have a feeling that once the ps3 is out, suddenly a whole lot more functionality will be unlocked.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Saturday, February 11, 2006 4:22 AM by slider2nl

I think the interface and the menu of the psp will be transformed to the PS3 system

now on psp:
Foto, video, games, music, web browser.
Sony can make this available for the PS3

What will be added to PS 3.

example:
Friendlist, multichat, single chat, live broadcasting, downloading media (movies, music, pictures), even conecting to you pc to see you own pictures, movies, music, without the media center 2005, video chat, maybe more.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Saturday, February 11, 2006 6:38 AM by Wylde Chylde

Yar, the Xbox team needs to get off it's but and start making functionality instead of lame excuses or they will be going the way of the dreamcast.

There is absolutely no reason other than scuzy marketing that the 360 could not be the most functional central media hub on the face of the planet. It is sad to see the greedy money men try to leach of as much cash as possible while sacrificing expected utility. Once Joe Blow Public gets wind of this the exodus to the ps3 will be mind blowing.

People do not want to have to buy a new pc when there is no reason that every single component should integrate flawlessly without restrictions.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Saturday, February 11, 2006 6:48 AM by Daniel Lawson

I am calling shinanigan(sp?) or whatever on this crap. Who plays Live and only wants to talk to one friend at a time? I mean besides me...On the whole Sony deal... I don't know where people get this idea that Sony has the ability to make a good online community... every good online game they have they bought the company after they developed it with the sole exception being EQ2 and that's a fiestco as far as Sony's end of the deal. The players make that service bearable. Sony can't and will never make a service that can compete with Xbox Live on 360 bases solely on the fact that they botched up not only their games, but the games they bought.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Saturday, February 11, 2006 7:31 AM by RuneX2K

I feel all this is turning into a dreamcast scenario.
Why limit the capabilities of the hardware anyway?
Surely if it could be done on a basic pc with standard
dsl it should be on the "Powerful" 360. And as for the
software side of things you would think that Microsoft
would be chucking all sorts of toys in to the dashboard,
like on the PC Windows OS. IRC on 360 would as they say
bring communities together, why can't i have a dedicated
chatroom for every game i own available through the
dashboard along with private and public user created
themed rooms?
Damn we are stepping in to the High-Def era, there should
be Video-Chat, 3D-Chat worlds even. Im becoming pretty
disappointed with the 360's limited capabilities, when i
heard Microsoft was to release a games console i was
glad, they are probably the only company who could
possibly give Sony true competition.
Come on Bill mate, show us what you can do being the richest
man with control over one of the most succesful
companies ever. This is a game and your making it,
we are asking little but to enjoy your product even more.

# Gaming 360 » Blog Archive » Private Chat Feature Explained

Saturday, February 11, 2006 8:03 AM by Gaming 360 » Blog Archive » Private Chat Feature Explained

PingBack from http://www.gaming-360.com/?p=373

# re: Multiparty Chat

Saturday, February 11, 2006 8:19 AM by Bagpuss

You can bet that Sony will get their on line service working at least up to Xbox Live standards (though probably after a year or two).

The fidelity voice comms on the 360 is way below the orignal Xbox. I wouldn't be supprised if its due to imposed bandwidth rules for games to get Xbox live certification.

I'm also concerned that its going to push the console the Dreamcast way. 360's are in abundance round the shops here and no one is buying.

Its interesting to read the team Xbox blog, but as the author has probably found out, many readers are sofware developers for a living and I expect many know way more than I about network code development.

Please don't let the marketeers take over the 360 developemnt policy, or it will end up all press release hype and no features.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Saturday, February 11, 2006 11:17 AM by Spike

How about a 360 Calendar online.

Well, imagine that you would like to play PDZ tomorrow with some friends.
Then you can send an invitation to all your requested attendees with the game you want to play and the hour of start.
So people can see in their
calendar (a day, a week or month), when there will be a team batlle or clan war or just a game among friends.

The calendar can be something just like microsoft outlook.

Greetz,
Gamertag: Spike Bee
Belgium

# re: Multiparty Chat

Saturday, February 11, 2006 11:57 AM by lpkilla7

this is bad news for ff11 fans.......sell your xbox 360 if multi chat is not added.........this is the only way big companies listen......

# re: Multiparty Chat

Sunday, February 12, 2006 3:44 PM by Lewis

While you're at it. Make it so if you double press the Xbox Guide button it accepts or quites current chat. It'd make things so much easier.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Monday, February 13, 2006 2:43 AM by Anderson Imes

I really appreciate you guys taking the time to post information about your internal thought process on this feature. It at least tells us where you are coming from.

I guess that I'm confused on some of the points that you make in here. The thing that isn't clear from a technical side is how the chat scenario operates ingame versus quickchat.

I seems clear to me that the QuickChat feature is a peer to peer feature and that the ingame voice chat is served by a server (the same one serving the game), but you don't specifically say this in your post.

If this is the case that it is peer to peer, it's obvious why you would not want to do multi-party chat from the QuickChat feature, as you each user would make (N - 1) connections (where N is the number of users) to the other players, which would result in a total of ((N-1) * N) connections total per chat session, although the only load per player would be the (N-1) connections to other players.

I appreciate the fact that you are developing toward the lowest common denominator, giving players who might not have the best connection the same experience as others with faster connections, but I'm sure a significant number of broadband users have connections in excess of 128Kbps. I, personally, have never paid more than $40 per month since 1999 for broadband internet service and have never had less than 1500Kbps.

Given that the majority of users are most-likely well above the conservative estimate of 64Kbps, wouldn't it be prudent to allow this feature to be available to users as long as they get a warning that participating in multiparty chats might degrade overall performance?

Again, thanks for the clarification. And thanks for listening to our requests. I look forward to future posts.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Monday, February 13, 2006 6:05 AM by Lewis

^ Spot the mathematician ^ :P

# re: Multiparty Chat

Monday, February 13, 2006 12:09 PM by SilverSlide

Am I missing something here? Having a quick Multichat 'game' (live arcade item as mentioned) would seem to solve all the issues you descibe in one go - a basic lobby listing gamertags (16-32 tops?) where everyone could chat and join like with the original Xbox.

Seems a no brainer.

Think about it and add bells and user experience whistles later - just go make up a lobby with chat in the sdk (maybe you can visit Game Studios and nick some lobby code) certify it up and get it online. Keep it simple and get it in our hands within a month. Better something than nothing.

Sorted.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Monday, February 13, 2006 11:20 PM by Spencer

Could it be possible to limit the chat system to one way while a game is being played on-line, but open it up to 'party chat' while in the dashboard?

My 2 cents....

www.gameslacker.com

# re: Multiparty Chat

Monday, February 13, 2006 11:27 PM by Simon

Being able to "white board" in a game style lobby might also be pretty cool, like being able to draw (might be hard with the controller instead of a mouse?) on to a big shared-workspace on the screen. Just think of the possibilities, you could do noughts-and-crosses, the sticks game where you draw lines between dots, all sorts of things.

Having said that, I'll settle for just multi user chat. Anything else would be a bonus.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Tuesday, February 14, 2006 4:10 AM by slider2nl

even skype is 1 on 1 / peer to peer
even in a meeting mode with 5 people it's stil peer to peer.
Keep in mind that the host of the conference (the person who started the conference) is the only person that can add new participants. In addition, because Skype conferences are done Peer-to-Peer

so like skype you can call 1 on 1
like quickchat right.

oke i want to invite someone to that chat i can becuase skype let me do that peer to peer
but the xbox 360 can't/won't do that

# re: Multiparty Chat

Tuesday, February 14, 2006 1:20 PM by Shamrock

You guys have to find a way to do it. I wouldn't be dissapointed if you didn't, I would be mad as hell. Some others said it perfectly, if skype can do it, and I can still play PC games fine, then xbox can do it.

At least Give us the option. Gamers aren't stupid, if they see they are lagging when they have 4 people in a voice chat, then they will simply ask a buddy with higher upload speed to host the voice chat. When it comes down to it, its all about upload speed. Just about everyone has at least 400 or 500k of download speed. I have 7 megs of download speed myself. We have all figured out between our buddy's who has the good upload speed from hosting games. We'll figure out who to make host the chat. We are pretty smart when we need to be.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 8:34 AM by Lewis

"We are pretty smart when we need to be." - On the contrary, many of the people I play don't understand what "MY MINE IS HERE, DO NOT STAND ON IT" means.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 12:36 PM by Shamrock

Don't get me wrong, it was nice to post this subject shaheeng, but aren't you going to respond to any points people made?

# re: Multiparty Chat

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 1:46 PM by slider2nl

there is a way to see if people have a bad, good, or great connection that tells us when

bad=red
good=yellow
great=green

so we know from our friends how the connection is when we are going into multi chat.

Even in games with connection in bad=red i can still talk and play together (some times lag some times not) but it tells me how his/her connection is and if i wanna chat or play with that team/guy/girl, thats my choice.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 16, 2006 4:31 AM by cdubu

I do not have a very fast internet connection (2mb). Even when I was running 1mb or 512k I could easily play online pc games and have a skype conference open as well... I have friends that are constantly downloading, they do not have to stop this to use xbox live, imagine how much bandwidth that is using up?!

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 16, 2006 6:29 PM by Zafca

I agree with everyone here that multichat needs to be here. It was so annoying and difficult just to get three people into one game of COD2.

With Q4, we can all be in a lobby and talk and then join a game together, that was nice.

I too would like to see this function in the dashboard. Please, do not make it a live arcade only function, because I want to be able to chat while in Media Center, downloading games, whatever. Please add multichat.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, February 16, 2006 9:26 PM by Zafca

Part 2, by the way, I do REALLY like all that we can do with the 360. Great job! I just didn't want the first post to seem too negative. Thanks.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Friday, February 17, 2006 3:38 PM by LoStPrOpHeT026

Ive yet to buy a 360 because i live in the UK and dont want to get hyped up for something i know i can't have for a while due to stock issues.

Losing the muliple voice chat system in the dash is somthing that has to be sorted and i was thinking surely MS will come up with some kinda of chat update when the webcam is released.

Does anyone know of any webcam options in the dash at the moment cuz if theres not were guna need a update.

ADD MULTICHAT MS !!

# re: Multiparty Chat

Friday, February 17, 2006 5:11 PM by shaheeng

Hey everyone. I know people are looking to me to respond to the requests for having multiparty chat on Xbox 360. Unfortunately, I am not allowed to comment on the existence of current or future work. The feedback from the community is important to us and I promise that we take it very seriously.

For people that are wondering "well, a game can do many people, why can't quick chat?" The key point to take away is that Xbox can only assume there is 64kbps of bandwidth each way because that is our minimum as per our requirements. The game could be using all of that for whatever purpose it wants - be it chat or otherwise. Our requirements for games state that games at least have to have *some* chat functionality, which means Quick Chat may only really assume there is 1 talker worth of bandwidth.

Finally, for people that are saying "Gamers aren't stupid - just let us figure that out.": The people that are reading this blog are a lot more technically inclined that the average person using Xbox. We considered that user experience and we rejected it early on because we want Xbox to be consistent. Video game consoles Just Work(TM) and we don't want to change that any more than we have to.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Saturday, February 18, 2006 12:13 PM by Matthew Walsh

Shaheeng, we do very much appreciate your commentary on this. To be honest, the first time I even noticed the limitation was whilst playing Final Fantasy XI. My house has three XBox 360s in it [if you're wondering why you can't get hold of them... now you know ;)] and we all play the FFXI Beta, but it's irritating having to exclude someone from the full enjoyment of the party system just because they can't communicate with the other two.

Surely there could be two varieties of chat, Private Chat which is the same as we have now, and Group Chat which explicitly warns the user of the higher bandwidth requirements?

# re: Multiparty Chat

Monday, February 20, 2006 1:56 AM by Barry JEFFERS

Ive yet to buy a 360 everyone I know has one. All my friends say it's the best.We very much appreciate the Xbox development team and Xbox Live team.There's something to be said about the power of Xbox Live to bring people together. Think you Xbox TEAM

# re: Multiparty Chat

Monday, February 20, 2006 1:56 AM by Barry JEFFERS

# re: Multiparty Chat

Monday, February 20, 2006 7:13 PM by jason

Doesn't this conflict w/ 'Xbox 360: Camera and Microphone'

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/accessories/cameraandmicrophone.htm

is says that

'Video Chat

The microphone connected to the Xbox 360 Controller allows group chat, unlike the Xbox 360 Headset. Video chat and video messaging with your friends will become an integrated part of the Xbox Live experience. '

WTF, so MS wants us to dump more $$ into our $400 system just to have the ability to chat w/ more than 1 person!

Thats BS....on top of that, GET YOUR STORY STRAIGHT!

# re: Multiparty Chat

Tuesday, February 21, 2006 4:38 AM by slider2nl

and why another headset the one i have works fine even when i am talking with more people

or the new headset is wireless

# re: Multiparty Chat

Tuesday, February 21, 2006 6:48 AM by InsaneBastard

Ok. All your explanations seem to be invalid as of now :-)
I found the following quote on http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/accessories/cameraandmicrophone.htm:

################################
Video Chat
To further illustrate the point, he mentioned, "It's not just the camera, we have the microphone as well." The microphone plugs directly into the controller and allows your voice to carry through to the recipient's TV or stereo speakers.

The microphone connected to the Xbox 360 Controller allows group chat, unlike the Xbox 360 Headset. Video chat and video messaging with your friends will become an integrated part of the Xbox Live experience.
################################

Now why would group chat be possible with this new microphone and not the headset? I'm really confused. Do I have to hold in a microphone while chatting? Why not use the headset? Both plugs into the controller?

Please explain this when you have the time :-)

# re: Multiparty Chat

Tuesday, February 21, 2006 6:49 AM by InsaneBastard

Oh, sorry. "jason" beat me to it. I should've read all the comments more carefully. Sorry for my extra post.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:31 AM by Bill

I was just commenting about this conundrum on the xbox forums.

On one hand, MS team says, we are out of bndwidth. No group chat.

On the other, A magic camera mic created by MS that allows Group Video Chat over a 64kbps line..lol

Now if all the games are approved to work at 64kbps. Can someone here please explain why I had to purchase a 768kbps upload line so that I could host a COD2 game?

# re: Multiparty Chat

Tuesday, February 21, 2006 11:41 AM by slider2nl

if i buy the cam, and i get a mic with it.

why not a wireless head set that works with bluetooth,
just plug the sender and reciever under the controller place your head set around your ear. no wires.

because when there is a game and you need the so called (eye toy) feature to move or whatever and need your hands, and you are online and chatting how can i walk and move freely without holding the controller.

just make the head set wireless just like a nokia phone and a bluetooth headset and your done.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Tuesday, February 21, 2006 2:01 PM by InsaneBastard

"On one hand, MS team says, we are out of bndwidth. No group chat.

On the other, A magic camera mic created by MS that allows Group Video Chat over a 64kbps line..lol"

Yeah, it's fantastic isn't it? ;-) I'm sure there's a good explanation to all this, but I would really like to hear it. Hopefully the guys running this blog are allowed to comment on it. Or they may have to wait until the camera is released. :) Guys? ;)

# re: Multiparty Chat

Wednesday, February 22, 2006 12:48 PM by R1K

listin MS, plz just bring out out some kind ofxbox live update that will allow you to go on private chat and choose wether you want a 1 on 1 or upto 6-8, all the things that were said at the start if this forum is what your meant to be concentrating on, not bringing out a xbox live arcade multichat, that just takes the micheal :), think how much better it would be instead of joinin someone's chat then having to say 'Ill BRB' cuz you gotta talk to someone else in a different channel, its so stupid, if you bring out an update for multichat in dashboard only just liek the xbox 1 then thats fine, if you make it so you can do it while playing any different game like you can do now with the 1 on 1 chat then even better!!! this is like the 1 main big feature that people want at this point, then take your time with releasing the webcam e.t.c and the 360 will be mint :)

# re: Multiparty Chat

Wednesday, February 22, 2006 12:52 PM by keir

yeah man

# re: Multiparty Chat

Friday, February 24, 2006 4:23 AM by slider2nl

There are also topics on xbox.com forums about this problem, are they developers to ? or are they the ones that really using the xbox 360 -> the community.

It is possible with the cam or without it.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Sunday, February 26, 2006 12:44 PM by Tilly

It's pretty good

# re: Multiparty Chat

Sunday, February 26, 2006 3:54 PM by Ryan

Just add the mutli chat, and if other people cant handle it, oh well, they cant handle it, but it would improve the experience for others.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Tuesday, February 28, 2006 8:08 AM by Mattias

Although the poster R1K may have been a bit harsh, his suggestion about allowing multi party chat in the dashboard only sounds like a good idea. Why wouldn't that be acceptable?

# re: Multiparty Chat

Wednesday, March 01, 2006 11:52 PM by Blaze Lord

Multiplayer chat during Dashboard (possibly except while downloading), DVD playback, or Singleplayer gaming is something I desperately want. Please implement this.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Wednesday, March 29, 2006 10:16 PM by Tor Bjornrud

Sorry, it just isn't acceptable to not have this feature. I think most people who use broadband for gaming understand capacity and will use the chat at their own risk/benefit.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Monday, April 03, 2006 3:58 PM by wtf

PLEASE UNCHAIN THE VOICE CHAT SO WE CAN USE IT. WE WILL NOT HURT OURSELVES. LET US TRY.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Friday, April 07, 2006 5:10 AM by FT jay

The bandwith issue is BS. I've been using Skype with my friends simultaneously while palying in Live, without problems. It would be much more convenient to have private chat directly in dashboard.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Wednesday, April 12, 2006 5:38 PM by Inutaishou2005

I would really appreciate if you guys even gave us the OPTION to have a multiple perosn chat even if it IS limited to four people....the simple fact that Xbox had this feature proves that it is possible and should be at least attempted flawed or not. Not that i don't appreciate the attention you are giving to preformance....but in games like Battlefield 2 modern combat or other games that I'm sure will have this same issue....the radio gets tied up and the exchange of strategies and suggestions become limited to..."Go to the b-....DUDE OMG A HELICOPTER JU- I got a new download to- we should all play halo after t-" and sometimes the voice doesnt go through at all. I'm well aware this is a game issue but for Hardcore clans seeking professional level tournaments on live i think the ability to have crystal clear communication is Vital. I apologise if i am not the first person to say this as im sure you're sick of hearing it, and im sure your reasons are well in place... but i think the only risk you guys are taking is a bad decision on the people USING the chat systems part....bandwidth issues would only happen if someone HAD so many players in one chat...i dunno about you but the most people i've had in a chat where the chat stayed coherent was 8 and that was in halo....im just asking for the OPTION to have multiple people in a chat..Thanks for your time.
Personal Note: I've made sure to have all friends on my list send in formal suggestions/requests to customer service for this feature thanis for the awesome console
Loyal User,
Inutaishou2005

# re: Multiparty Chat

Saturday, April 15, 2006 8:33 PM by Dave A.K.A. WetWork

Please give us Multiparty Chat!!!

# re: Multiparty Chat

Monday, April 17, 2006 4:58 AM by Ben

There is still no excuse for not having a traditional Dashboard Chat on Xbox 360's Dashboard.

Oh wait... maybe Microsoft wants to make up some bull**** excuse about that one too, so they can sell it back to us?

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, April 20, 2006 11:17 AM by I Daz I

I dont think anyone runs with less than 128 Up , 64 was back in the day ! the competion between companies is now pushing this higher and higher , even people running through a phone line can get 256 at least.

As he said there wouldnt be a problem putting it in , the thing is if its there it means we can use it if we want , if you havent got the bandwidth to use then dont you dont have to use it ....

Considering the thought in this thread i can see this being very popular and a way to overcome voice difficulties ( A prime example being Moto GP where you can only talk to people in front and behind you or the voice difficulties in B2:MC )

More comments on this in the URL

# re: Multiparty Chat

Monday, April 24, 2006 2:08 AM by tom

would you like to chat on the net?
download many chat tools at http://www.yaodownload.com/internet-tools/chat/ to have a fun with other people!

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, April 27, 2006 2:44 PM by Wind

Guys they will give us Multichat for free when PS3 come out with this feature and I will cancel my gold member for live since I didn't see any use of it. FFXI didn't require a gold member and no server for handling multichat .

# re: Multiparty Chat

Tuesday, May 02, 2006 9:01 PM by matt

this needs to happen.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Friday, May 05, 2006 5:32 PM by .:DiGiTaL:.

XBOX 360 - 300 pounds, couple of games - 100 pounds, the look on your face when you realise theres no multi-chat - priceless.

Please can you re-think the update priorities. There are numerous sites listing countless complaints about the lack of this function, whereas, when one person thinks we should be able to chat from pc-xbox it's done.

Are surveys carried out when deciding on what updates are most applicable and which would satisfy the largest majority of XBL subscribers?

We put man on the moon, engineered the internal combustion engine, and discovered the science behind flight, but it beats me why we cannot get 8 people chatting to one another on a 21st century next gen gaming console.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Tuesday, May 23, 2006 1:56 PM by jt

Please add multi party chat. I'd rather be able to coordinate with my group of friends in a game then hearing a bunch of kids yelling and screaming.

I agree that it should be a choice and maybe it's only a choice if you select a higher bandwidth option. I also agree that maybe it doesn't make sense to allow a 10 person chat, but there are a lot of games where 3 or 4 people in a private chat really makes sense.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Friday, May 26, 2006 5:54 PM by Brenden

It doesnt seem like its that difficult why dont you just do it?

# re: Multiparty Chat

Wednesday, May 31, 2006 7:43 PM by jj

about going out with people

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, June 01, 2006 10:13 PM by vanessa

hey everybody

# re: Multiparty Chat

Wednesday, June 07, 2006 4:46 PM by Mr s.psycho

I cannot believe that microsoft hasent given us a multiple chat option. I know over a hundred people that feel completely gutted the lack of this vital feature, Maybee we wouldent feel so bad if the "in game" voice on games weve paid 50 pounds for actually worked ie Bf2mc and farcry . So please microsoft make it a requirement for game suppliers to release fully working games or give us a dam multi chat option so we can get around these issues!

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, June 08, 2006 1:49 PM by Ben

Conference Voice/Video Chat is the feature that everybody wants. So why don't we get it ? The reasoning in here is such a load of CRAP... I assure you that PS3 will have this feature and if XBOX 360 is truly about networking and connectivity you will add this feature... It's a no brainer if you ask me.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Tuesday, June 20, 2006 7:25 PM by Mike

We deffenitly need Multi voice chat IN GAME (at least 4 players). Dont give me this BS about it not being technically possible. People have been doing it for decades lag free in PC games. voice requires so little bandwidth for 4 people that its not even funny. Im talking like less then 50kbps.

And even if you need to expand past your so called limit of 64kbps, who cares? The average broadband speed is 5000kbps down and 700kbps up and those speeds are about to tiple in the next 2-3 years (Optimum Online I think is the first ISP in the states to upgrade). Using even as much as 1000kbps down and 300kbps up (which should be enough to support more then 15 people on multichat) on voice chat would not even effect lag in a game of 32 players in perfect dark zero (Unless your hosting the game and you have less then say an 800kbps upload steam.

Supporting 4 people in a voice chat while playing a game should have NO effect on lag in a game or be a difficult task to accomplish. If you guys at Microsoft are having problems, then its time you fire your ignorant staff and hire real programmers.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Wednesday, June 21, 2006 2:17 PM by Alex

I heard that you can do like a private chat with 3 people, its like a trick but im still trying to find out how, but i think there is a way!.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Saturday, June 24, 2006 3:29 AM by CHris

WHy cant some XBOX 360 users chat with each other. Some models wont chat with each other

# re: Multiparty Chat

Sunday, June 25, 2006 1:08 AM by yes

there is a trick, but only you can hear 2 people at once, with the game Fight Night for the 360 console, just private chat with your friend, then join a online game with another friend that you want to talk to. you can now talk to both people.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Sunday, June 25, 2006 5:35 PM by bo

it sound nice

# re: Multiparty Chat

Tuesday, July 04, 2006 10:40 AM by Violent

I understand it, because as the one guy stated basic DSl is 128kbs down but he forgot the up which is half that. Thats 64kbs up. I have 6mbs down and 3 mbs up so I get no lag what so ever anytime. I think they should just add up to 8 people chating at once and screw the slow bandwidth people. if you have basic dsl then why do you even have live get a decent connection gezz. Cable is as cheap as dsl and way faster dsl is obsolite people.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Tuesday, July 11, 2006 3:08 AM by RolandOfGilead

I think this whole thing just sounds like straight up communism. I currently have a 3 mbps connection with wicked upload speed, so my question is, why should I have to suffer for the others who have slower connections than me? this "consistent experience on Xbox Live," makes no sense because people will allways have differeing bandwidths. I'm not having a "consistent experience" when i don't lag durring a game and others do, and the same should apply to the multi user chat. Sure some people may not be able to use it, but why not make it available to those of us that can!?

# re: Multiparty Chat

Friday, July 14, 2006 1:13 AM by Mr Matey

Don't let this one slip guys. Keep the pressure up and a solution will have to present itself.

There is no excuse for not allowing multi-chat in the dashboard. Whoever left this off should give themselves an uppercut.

You would think that they would want to encourage their arcade experience - no better way to do that than through enabling multichat.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Friday, July 14, 2006 4:38 PM by o0slimz0o

The best suggestions / comments / questions I have gotten out of this are as follows.

1. dashboard only multichat.... why not they did it with xbox

2. 64k gimme a break, i sneeze faster than 64k, Mr. Spoc said it best
"the will of the MANY outweighs the will of the few or the 1".

3. Betcha PS3 will have multichat (and if we dont they will shove it in our faces)

4. CHROMEHOUNDS ROCKS... i know its a little off topic.. but at least im being honest... :)

# re: Multiparty Chat

Tuesday, July 18, 2006 3:48 PM by vannessa sanchez

i gest want to chat

# re: Multiparty Chat

Tuesday, July 18, 2006 3:48 PM by vannessa sanchez

i gest want to chat

# re: Multiparty Chat

Tuesday, July 18, 2006 3:48 PM by vannessa sanchez

i gest want to chat

# re: Multiparty Chat

Wednesday, July 26, 2006 2:08 PM by brendan fouty

does any one know how to save the game on to the hdd on the xbox360 so you dont have to have the disk to play. i cant figure it out.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Saturday, July 29, 2006 1:25 AM by SakAttak

I look at it this way if you can be in a BF2 game and have 16 people chatting at once with no bandwidth issues, then how is a 4 or 6 player private chat going to bog down the system. I mean really I dont see where it would be any different. The in game chat is basically the same as the private chat.

# arne360 » Blog Archive » Multi-user chat over Xbox Live - MGS / Xbox Community team member blogs about video games and gaming

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 10:23 PM by arne360 » Blog Archive » Multi-user chat over Xbox Live - MGS / Xbox Community team member blogs about video games and gaming

PingBack from http://arne360.com/blog/2006/02/09/multi-user-chat-over-xbox-live/

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# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, September 07, 2006 8:12 PM by Justin

Well for ffxi i would like to have a 4 way chat... it isnt hard to make... come on x-box live >.>

# re: Multiparty Chat

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 5:23 AM by still looking

This is still an incredibly important feature. Like everyone else has said in this post, we don't care what it takes, but please make this feature happen.

Allow us the option of deciding how much bandwidth we want to use. If the game degrades, so be it.

And we need to be able to do this in games as well. I want to be chatting with my 4 friends while playing Battlefield 2. The built in voice chat allows you to chat with everyone on your team, but I only want to talk with my friends.

This has been accomplished with tons of other systems/PC.. there is *no* reason it cannot be accomplished here.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Friday, September 22, 2006 10:10 AM by WE NEED MULTI-CHAT

This feature is a MUST!

We've been using programs like TeamSpeak and Ventrilo for years along with PC multiplayer games. Why is it that we did not have bandwidth issues... with the very same internet connection?? And with greater sound quality than the XBL voice chat? And sometimes with 8+ peoples???

Even after reading this... I don't see any logical reason not to add this feature... If it can be done for PC.. and for the first XBox... it needs to be done again and improved.. not simply taken out....

We need to have to possibility to chose how much person we want to chat with at the same time. So what if it affects our online gaming? We can decide if it's ruining the experience for us and leave the chat, or the game when it does.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, October 05, 2006 7:51 PM by Common Sense

This is just a common issue about features that cam with the XBOX 360. now you cant expect them to be perfect but what you can expect is that they will put this feature into the XBOX 360. I mean think about it... when they first sold their system thet had a shortage for long periods of time and people decided to not get the system. So now people are getting kind of "ancy" about the release of the PS3 and are now wondering wich system to buy.

Now I'm not saying that this is a big deciding feature to the 360, I'm just saying that alot of people are going to look at each new systems features as a whole and decide from that Plus the fact that you wouldnt be able to talk to even 4 of your friends at a time would really not help the 360's standpoint.

Basically, the 360 team should be smart about this whole situation and add the feature to the system to boost the standpoint of the 360 in comparison to PS3 and please the vast majoraty of people who play games and have friends. Isn't that what it is all about?

# re: Multiparty Chat

Friday, November 17, 2006 9:08 PM by Cripes!

Just bought an xbox 360. Was playing last night with my friend and it was great. We were chatting it up while playing COD 3. Having a blast.

We convinced our other friend to buy one. So I get on tonight and they are chatting. So I send a chat invite to friend A. He answers and says cool let me get friend B in here.

Whoops! Big problem. There is no way to have multiple people in chat. How annoying. We thought we could just play games and chat with each other at the same time. How disappointing. So our choices were leave one friend out of the chat or just try and chat over the general game channel. :(

So we spent the next hour switching back and forth between chats trying to figure out what game to play and then eventually trying to get in a Gears of War game together, since there were less players we might have been able to actually still have a conversation over the channel.

Nope, failure again. When we tried to host a game we were left with sitting in a game lobby with 3 of us and no one else joining. When we tried to join a public game, either the lists wouldn't have 3 slots open or even if they did, they would fill up before we could all join. Or we wouldn't be on the same team.

You would think it wouldn't be that difficult to set up a match making system where I could join a chat area and then pre-set up a game where me and my friends could be matched up with similar players. Reminds me of the old days of Starcraft on Battle net and trying to time joining a particular match with my friends over Roger Wilco, only to have one guy late or lag out. Very frustrating. Sorry for that tangent.

Bottom line. Open up the private chat to at least 4 people.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Monday, December 25, 2006 9:01 AM by mD

Multiparty Chat is a must. After buying a 360 and getting 4 of my buddies to buy it too, I was extreemely pissed off at the fact that five of us could not talk in the same channel.

Makes me wanna return the darn 360 back to the store....

What if there was a settings screen for voice comms where you would provide IP/port, etc. for a voice comm server. It would be up to us to provide a server address w/ sufficient bandwidth.

Or,

Knowing how microsoft likes to milk us for money, why not offer some kind of MS voice server monthly subscriptions ($2/slot, etc.).... (can't believe im suggesting this)

In conclusion, it is extremely important to have Multiparty Chat support added with the next update.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, January 18, 2007 10:48 AM by Rickmanx

Microsoft, one of the great things my friends do when we play PC games is jump on Ventrillo and figure out which game we play, then dive into whatever we choose.

I cannot believe this feature used to exist for the original Xbox, but then was REMOVED for the 360? Who's retarded idea was that?

Multi-Party chat is a MUST when gathering before playing a game.

I like the idea one player mentioned above. Allow users to create 16 player chat rooms, but communication halts as soon as a game has started.

Chat Lobbys are definitely NEEDED.

Think hard on this Microsoft. you have a great console, but this is definitely a hard weakness. And you should know by now that you never remove a heavily used feature when upgrading to what's supposed to be better.

BAD MOVE MICROSOFT!

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, January 18, 2007 7:13 PM by Ddave_73

I cannot believe that the old xbox live system had more than 1v1 chat and because I baught a next gen machine I dont have this.

I suggested in the xbox forums that microsoft could set up a ventrilo server rental type system, and this is more than possible and could be fully automated with very very little work.

I would happily pay an extra few ££ or $$ per month to have access to a multi chat system, let a small ventrilo type server that users who wish to use have to pay a little extra for take the load off the users upstream, no one would mind a small fee for such a service and if they use good audio codecs the bandwidth is very small.

This is an absolute disgrace that we do not have such a feature or at least an option in this day and age, for easily 4 years now on my pc I have been able to communicate with 20+ users in the same voice chat room and now in 2007 I am forced to have 1v1.

My friends on live dont always want to play the same games, hell we dont even always want to play games, so what microsoft force me to do is to say to one of my friends "hang on while I chat with (insert name here)" " I will be back after I finsih talking with (insert name here)"

What a joke !

If more than one of my buddies are on xbox live these days I am usualy trying to wait untill there is only one of my friends onlien because I hate to have to choose who I am going to chat with and having to wonder what my friends think of me because i have been forced to have to pick one friend to chat with.

And I have asked in a few forums and blogs before why this is not done already and the next person to tell em that ist too complicated or it will use too much bandwidth is gong to get a kick in the ass of my size 9 steel cappers !

It IS simple to do, most users DO have eneugh bandwidth.

Microsoft COULD make money from this, 90% of users WOULD pay for this extra feature we should have had in the first place.

Why on earth dont you just let me the owner of a gamers community just rent a voice chat server from you on yearly basis for a fair amount and be able to give my members and friends the access code or whateaver, why on gods green earth should this be so hard ?

My members and friends could easily have something implimented in the dash that give them the option to enter a certain voice chat server, then they could even have it where they can tell the dash to auto sign into this chat server upon login to xbox live.

I am disgusted that we are in the early 90`s in regards to voice chat, god damn roger fricken wilko on the pc was better than this crap !

The console is great, the games are great (mostly) but the comunication aspect is pathetic and if I can see this and make a reasonable and easily implimentable solution to thsi problem then why the hell are microsoft paying somebody many thousands per year to program for them and they cant manage to give us more than 1v1.

Get a grip on this situation microsoft, dont make excuses, we all know we can be given what we want with very little work from the largest company on the planet so do us the people who payed the money to get you where you are today the favour of giving us what we deserve.

I will be posting this exact message in the xbox forums even though I have already posted a simmilar request a short while back, I suggest more and more people do the same.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Thursday, January 18, 2007 7:25 PM by Ddave_73

Posted my above message in the Xbox live Discussion thread named "Voice chat is far from next gen, wake up microsoft !"

the URL is below if you cant find it.

http://forums.xbox.com/9729063/ShowPost.aspx#9729063

Please show your support on this subject and lets get something done about this situation !

# re: Multiparty Chat

Friday, January 19, 2007 6:59 PM by Bladd DeImpaler

I have to agree with the previous posts. Please make this happen. We know it is possible and YOU know it is possible.

# re: Multiparty Chat

Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:22 PM by Killer-WRX

As if anyone can play games using 64kb\s Up or even Down.

Why not just make Party Chat only available in Dashboard, or Arcade games?

# re: Multiparty Chat

Monday, March 12, 2007 5:25 AM by ...

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# re: Multiparty Chat

Tuesday, March 20, 2007 1:22 AM by ...

Chi ha fatto questo? E un buon posto per trovare le informazioni importanti!:)

# re: Multiparty Chat

Monday, April 09, 2007 1:02 AM by Mike

is this post a joke? Its the lamest excuse for not including the feature ever. 64kbps. Come on. This is 2007, not 1995. Users have 100x this ammount of bandwidth. And voice bandwidth takes up very little. If you spent your time with networking instead of blogging you would know this. MS can easily patch in multi chat support. Hell they could put 15+ person multichat support with 1 person hosting and It would not effect in game at all. And most of us are willing to settle for 4 person chat.

When me and my friends play Gears of war, we all use PC headsets and connect on ventrillo. We ALL play lag free just fine, and we can all talk and are still using the bandwidth. My family even uses the other household pcs as we do this.

This is a BS excuse for not including a basic feature. Why not tell the truth? Something like "We didnt think about multichat for console launch and now that we realize how many people want it, we dont want to do it because it would take way to much time and money to change all the code around to support it" Im sure that statment is closer to the true reason why you dont support it.

# re: Multiparty Chat

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# re: Multiparty Chat

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# » Warum Quickchat nur ein Einzelgespr??ch ist » Quandoz - Neuste Spiele: Forza 2 / Shadowrun

Thursday, June 07, 2007 11:40 AM by » Warum Quickchat nur ein Einzelgespr??ch ist » Quandoz - Neuste Spiele: Forza 2 / Shadowrun

PingBack from http://www.quandoz.com/?p=104

# 40 Days #35: Turn the dashboard into a videoconferencing powerhouse

Tuesday, March 11, 2008 11:10 PM by Playing on Easy

A common complaint about the Xbox 360 dashboard is the lack of the multi-person chats that were available

# Interscription » Blog Archive » Two years later…

Friday, April 11, 2008 7:38 PM by Interscription » Blog Archive » Two years later…

PingBack from http://interscription.com/2008/04/11/two-years-later/

# xbox live team chat

Sunday, June 01, 2008 2:28 AM by xbox live team chat

PingBack from http://damianlatestnews.freeadsensehost.com/xboxliveteamchat.html

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# World of Quandoz &raquo; Warum Quickchat nur ein Einzelgespr?ch ist?

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# Gaming 360 &raquo; Blog Archive &raquo; Private Chat Feature Explained

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# World of Quandoz » Warum Quickchat nur ein Einzelgespr?ch ist?

# Gaming 360 » Blog Archive » Private Chat Feature Explained

# arne360 » Blog Archive » Multi-user chat over Xbox Live - MGS / Xbox Community team member blogs about video games and gaming